{"id":5999,"date":"2023-09-20T01:40:17","date_gmt":"2023-09-19T19:40:17","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/?p=5999"},"modified":"2023-09-20T01:50:53","modified_gmt":"2023-09-19T19:50:53","slug":"sinatra-sylvan-beach-to-crystal-beach-and-what-about-schenectady","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/?p=5999","title":{"rendered":"SINATRA: SYLVAN BEACH TO CRYSTAL BEACH. AND WHAT ABOUT SCHENECTADY?"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Scott<\/a> \u00a0 If this blahg has a title then I must have figured out what I was going to say.\u00a0 I’ll offer up a warning right at the beginning that this is going to be another one of those Sinatra related entries.\u00a0 I’d been working on it for a while in my mind and through emails with other Sinatra fans but I think I’m ready to start typing this out.\u00a0 If the title doesn’t say, “To Be Or Not To Be” or “Did That Really Happen?” or “Sylvan Beach to Crystal Beach and Schenectady In-between” then I’m ready to post this.\u00a0 Maybe it will have one of those titles because a couple sound intriguing.\u00a0 Read on.\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 As you know, and I have mentioned in previous blahgs like “Down A Rabbit Hole With Linda Keene<\/a>“, I send out a daily post about what Sinatra was doing for every calendar day.\u00a0 In the Linda Keene blahg I had talked about a post I made for April 17th.\u00a0 On that date I posted the following:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

April 17, 1950 Strictly From Dixie
\nHenry Levine Orchestra
\n<\/i><\/b>NBC Blue Network
\nWJZ
\nNew York City
\n10:30 – 11:00 p.m.
\nMonday Evening
\nHenry Levine Orchestra & Soloists
\nMartha Lou Harp\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 blues singer
\nGuest\u00a0 Singer: Frank Sinatra
\n<\/i>\"Sinatra<\/a><\/p>\n

\n
\n
\n
<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
\n
\n
\n

I had not known about this show and in researching it, I discovered the lovely Linda Keene…but that’s another story.\u00a0 If you want to know about that, start with the aforementioned Linda Keene blahg or my three part series, TRACING LINDA KEENE, PART 1: THE FLORENCE SUTTLE YEARS<\/a>, TRACING LINDA KEENE, PART 2: THE MOMENT IN MY LIFE<\/a>, and TRACING LINDA KEENE, PART 3: ONE MORE FOR THE ROAD<\/a>.
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 Where this story begins is way back in 1939.\u00a0 In the summer of 1939, Frank Sinatra began touring with Harry James and his Orchestra.\u00a0 By August, they had settled in for a long run at the Fountain Lake Bandshell at the World’s Fair in New York.\u00a0 Their first day was August 19, 1939 and this is what I had listed for August 19:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n
1939 New York World’s Fair, Fountain Lake Bandshell (August 19 – September 2)
\n<\/b>Harry James and his Orchestra with Frank Sinatra
\n\"Harry<\/a><\/div>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

Note, that in brackets, I had posted what I thought was the complete run of their engagement at the World’s Fair from August 19th to September 2nd.\u00a0 The September 1st and 2nd dates are what began to be called into question.\u00a0 One of the members of our Sinatra group emailed me the following:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 Wondering where you found a listing for 9\/2 ? Did not see anything in The Times and there was no listing of a remote on that Saturday night. The band\u00a0 had a date outside of Buffalo on 9\/3 and then on to Chicago. A gruelling bus trip in 1939 and they had played 14 consecutive days at The Fair.\u00a0<\/em><\/h4>\n

\u00a0Back in 2021, we began to note a conflict regarding September 1st, 1939.\u00a0 Here’s what we listed and below that are some details of the mystery.\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

1939 Sylvan Beach, New York (One Nighter)
\n<\/b>Harry James and His Orchestra with Jack Palmer, Connie Hayes, and Frank Sinatra<\/h4>\n

1939 New York World’s Fair, Fountain Lake Bandshell (August 19 – September 2)
\n<\/b>Harry James and His Orchestra with Frank Sinatra<\/p>\n

Here were some details I provided at the time.
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

1939 New York World’s Fair, Fountain Lake Bandshell (August 19 – September 2)
\n<\/b>Harry James and His Orchestra with Frank Sinatra
\n
\nHere is the listing of James at the World\u2019s Fair (New York Daily News September 1)<\/i><\/h4>\n

 <\/p>\n

<\/i> \"New<\/a><\/h4>\n

\u00a0But also there\u2019s also adverts for him at Sylvan Beach (Syracuse Herald-Journal, August 30)<\/i><\/h4>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

Adding to this mystery was the fact that Harry James was also listed at the New York World’s Fair on September 2nd, 1939, his supposed closing night, as well an engagement at The Casino in Bemus Point, New York.\u00a0 Here’s what the September 2nd listing looked like:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n
1939 New York World’s Fair, Fountain Lake Band Shell (August 19 – September 2)
\n<\/b>Harry James and his Orchestra w\/Frank Sinatra1939 The Casino, Bemus Point, N.Y. (One Nighter)
\n<\/b>Harry James and His Orchestra with Connie Hayes, Jack Palmer, Frank Sinatra<\/div>\n

Here were our details about the two conflicting engagements:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0Here is yet another September 1939 mystery:
\nHere is a listing for James at the Worlds Fair on this date (New York Daily News \u2013 September 2)<\/i><\/h4>\n

\"New<\/a><\/i><\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

But also there are multiple ads for them at Bemus Point (Warren Times Mirror\/Dunkirk Evening Observer\/The Kane Republican, August 30; Warren Times Mirror August 31)<\/i><\/h4>\n

\"\"<\/a>\"\"<\/a><\/i><\/h4>\n

\u00a0So, the question was how could Harry James be at the New York World’s Fair on September 1st and 2nd but also be at Sylvan Beach on the 1st and Bemus Point on the second?<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 When the question was first asked of me about the September 2nd closing date and its accuracy, I of course set out to defend my listing for the New York World’s Fair by offering more evidence.\u00a0 Here’s what I posted to everyone:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

The following is from the New York Daily News, Sat, Sep 2, 1939:<\/h4>\n

\"Harry<\/a><\/p>\n

Note that Harry James was listed as playing at the World’s Fair on September 2nd. Here was one of my subsequent posts:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Are we any closer to a consensus on September 2, 1939?\u00a0 The evidence for Beemus Point Casino is compelling but then we also have the listing from the Daily News that James and company were still at the World\u2019s Fair.<\/h4>\n

This is the list for programs on September 3, 1939 at the World\u2019s Fair<\/h4>\n

\"Harry<\/a><\/h4>\n

Note that Hal Kemp is in the Band Shell.<\/h4>\n

Compare that to the September 2nd<\/sup>, 1939 listing:<\/h4>\n

\"Harry<\/a><\/p>\n

Note the September 2nd<\/sup>, 1939 listing has the Bunny Berrigan Orchestra at the Fountain Lake Band Shell at 7:30 but there\u2019s no mention where Harry James was playing but the listing below from September 1st<\/sup> has Harry James in the amusement area:<\/h4>\n

\"Harry<\/a><\/h4>\n

So what does this all mean?\u00a0 I don\u2019t know!\u00a0 There are no reviews of James at Bemus Point.\u00a0 I checked a number of other New York State papers and found the ads for Beamus Point but no review.\u00a0 There\u2019s also no review of James on September 2nd<\/sup> at the World\u2019s Fair.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

We do know that Harry James was billed at Olcott Beach on September 3rd<\/sup>.<\/h4>\n

\"Harry<\/a>Olcott Beach is approximately 400 miles from New York City.\u00a0 Bemus Point is also around 400 miles from New York City.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Bemus Point is 103 miles from Olcott Beach.\u00a0 Certainly travelling to Bemus Point on September 2nd<\/sup> and then Olcott Beach for the 3rd<\/sup> would make sense.<\/strong><\/p>\n

That was when I began to believe that the September 2nd, 1939 entry for the New York World’s Fair was probably incorrect and that Bemus Point would have been more accurate.\u00a0 This was also when I began to believe that maybe our listing for September 1st was wrong and I should look more into the Sylvan Beach entry. Here’s what I worked out in my mind and then posted to our group:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Looking at all the articles and news and such, I\u2019m inclined to believe that Harry James and ensemble were not at the World\u2019s Fair in New York after August 31st<\/sup>.\u00a0 That would make the following itinerary more likely to be true:<\/h4>\n

September 1, 1939 Russell\u2019s Danceland, Sylvan Point, NY<\/h4>\n

September 2, 1939 Casino, Bemus Point, NY<\/h4>\n

September 3, 1939 Olcott Beach, NY<\/h4>\n

If you assume that Harry James finished on August 31st<\/sup> in New York then looking at the map below, it was quite easy to drive to Sylvan Beach for September 1st<\/sup> and then straight across and down to Bemus Point for the 2nd<\/sup> and then up to Olcott Beach for September 3<\/h4>\n

\"Map<\/a><\/h4>\n

One of our Sinatra group members took up the challenge and reached out to someone in Bemus Point.\u00a0 Here was his post about it:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

I’ve always believed in going to the source when all else fails.<\/h4>\n

This morning I called the casino in Bemus Point, N.Y.\u00a0 A very polite gentleman listened to my question and then told me to hold on while he checked their records. The casino has the history of all the name acts that played there in the 1930s and 40s. The James band played a one-nighter on 9-2-39.<\/h4>\n

Well, that confirmed September 2nd, 1939 but what about September 1st, 1939 at Sylvan Beach?\u00a0 Here was my post after hearing confirmation about Bemus Point:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

I checked the same newspaper Syracuse Herald Journal that advertised Dorsey at Sylvan Beach in 1941 and found they were advertising Harry James at Sylvan Beach on September 1st <\/sup>, 1939 as tonight only:<\/h4>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0Would be odd to advertise as Tonight Only and Harry James wasn\u2019t there.\u00a0 I\u2019m still looking for any other reference.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0Eventually, one of our group, the same person who reached out to Bemus Point, resolved the issue with the following post:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Hi Philers,<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 I contacted the historian of an area that includes Sylvan Beach, N.Y.<\/h4>\n

Scott was right. The band closed at the World’s Fair on 8-31-39.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 They arrived in Rome, N.Y. on the afternoon of September 1st. The big hype locally was the return of Jack<\/h4>\n

Palmer. He was from Rome. James and Co. had dinner at the Grand Hotel in Rome ( name was changed to Commander Hotel<\/h4>\n

in the 1980s ).\u00a0 See enclosed photo.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 The concert at Russell’s Danceland took place that evening. Jack Henke ( historian ) told me that a color<\/h4>\n

photo from the stage was displayed for many years at the Pancake House in Sylvan. Front and center was Jack Palmer<\/h4>\n

playing a trumpet solo. Frank was in the\u00a0background ( I’ve seen the photo. Never knew the location ). Between sets the<\/h4>\n

band ate at Eddie’s. He had established the place in 1934 with his wife Phoebe. While the band was eating, she noticed<\/h4>\n

a skinny little guy was sitting out on the curb smoking. Phoebe went out and told him to come in and have something to<\/h4>\n

eat. And he did.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 Now, there was a remote of the James band broadcast that evening on CBS, from 12:A.M. to 12:30. Jack<\/h4>\n

assured me that the station in Rome was able to air such a program. It is listed in the New York and Boston papers.<\/h4>\n

Here are the two images attached to the post:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\"Dinner<\/a><\/h4>\n

\"SBJParticle\"<\/a><\/h4>\n

So what about Crystal Beach, you may well ask.\u00a0 Give me a moment to finish and then you can ask.\u00a0 At one point after the information was posted and confirmed about Bemus Point, I posted some additional information about Sylvan Beach and another Sinatra connection:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

As an aside, I was looking into Russell\u2019s Danceland at Sylvan Beach and one website mentions that Sinatra and Dorsey played there on July 17th<\/sup>, 1941 but we\u2019ve never had that in our listings.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to try and run it down to confirm.<\/h4>\n

Here was the post where I detailed what I found about Tommy Dorsey at Sylvan Beach:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

This is the listing I found that mentions Dorsey on July 17, 1941 at Sylvan Beach, NY:<\/h4>\n

HISTORY OF SYRACUSE MUSIC “OFFICIAL SITE” – CHAPTER 37 – MORE FAMOUS NAMES WHO PERFORMED OR SPOKE IN SYRACUSE BETWEEN 1941-1945 <\/strong><\/h4>\n

Feb 7-9, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Louis Armstrong\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 RKO Keith’s Theater<\/h4>\n

Apr 18, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Howard Thurston (Magician)\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 RKO Strand<\/p>\n

May 9-11, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Count Basie\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0RKO Strand<\/p>\n

May 23-25, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sally Rand\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 RKO Strand<\/p>\n

June 16-18, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Vincent Lopez Orchestra\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 RKO Keiths<\/p>\n

June 20-22, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Bill “Bojangles” Robinson\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 RKO Strand<\/p>\n

June 22, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Gene Krupa\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sylvan Beach<\/p>\n

July 17, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Tommy Dorsey Orchestra\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Sylvan Beach<\/p>\n

Aug 24, 1941\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Kate Smith\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 N.Y.S. Fair<\/p>\n

Jan 6, 1942\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 3 Stooges (Curly, Larry, Moe)\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Strand Theater<\/p>\n

Here was my follow-up post about Dorsey and Sinatra at Sylvan Beach in 1941:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Here\u2019s the ad and a small article about Dorsey at Sylvan Beach, July 17, 1941:<\/h4>\n

\"Tommy<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0\"TD<\/a><\/h4>\n

\u00a0Note Sinatra not mentioned but the week before he was mentioned in a small article:<\/h4>\n

\"TD<\/a><\/p>\n

So, if it wasn’t for the Harry James at Sylvan Beach mystery, I probably wouldn’t have found out about Tommy Dorsey and Sinatra at Sylvan Beach in 1941.<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 Now on to Crystal Beach.\u00a0 Ask away.\u00a0 What’s that?\u00a0 What about Crystal Beach?\u00a0 Let me tell you.\u00a0 There had already been another unsubstantiated early Sinatra engagement that I could never verify.\u00a0 It concerned Crystal, Beach, Ontario here in Canada.\u00a0 Here was my follow-up post after the resolution to the Sylvan Beach issue:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Now that you\u2019ve finalized the answer to Sylvan Beach 1939 with Harry James, I\u2019d like some answers about Tommy Dorsey at Crystal Beach in Crystal Beach, Ontario, Canada.\u00a0 I\u2019m not sure of the exact date and I\u2019ve found no article or ads to substantiate the rumors that Sinatra and Dorsey played there. \u00a0Websites dedicated to Crystal Beach swear they were there but no date given.\u00a0 There\u2019s even a mock poster in circulation, also without a date:<\/h4>\n

\"Sinatra<\/a><\/h4>\n

\u00a0I\u2019ve checked Buffalo newspapers and Toronto newspapers but can\u2019t find anything to suggest they were there.\u00a0 If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, let me know.<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

Just to give you an idea of where Crystal Beach, Ontario, is, have a look at the following map:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\"Crystal<\/a><\/h4>\n

The distance is about 26 miles.\u00a0 Many of the big bands who had played in Buffalo or Fort Erie would also play the Ballroom in Crystal Beach.\u00a0 I have read some of the posts from seniors through memory projects who clearly remember seeing Sinatra with Tommy Dorsey at Crystal Beach and the poster above springs either from someone’s memory or imagination.\u00a0 The poster too clearly featured Sinatra rather than focusing on Tommy Dorsey and of course there was no date attached to it.\u00a0 So, I began my research and the posts began.\u00a0 Here was one of my first posts on the subject :
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

On a side note,\u00a0 I found this:<\/h4>\n

July 17, 1965<\/h4>\n

\"FS<\/a><\/h4>\n

Not the original Dorsey and not Sinatra Sr. but interesting.<\/h4>\n

I also added the following post about Tommy Dorsey at Crystal Beach:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

So far the only reference I can find to Tommy Dorsey at Crystal Beach was July 14th, 1955 with his brother Jimmy.<\/em><\/h4>\n

\"Dorsey<\/a><\/p>\n

Here was another post in response to another member of our Sinatra group:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

I\u2019ve read so many posts from people who say they saw Sinatra at such and such a place with or without Dorsey and I haven\u2019t been able to confirm most of them.<\/h4>\n

There\u2019s a great book called:<\/h4>\n

“Let\u2019s Dance: A Celebration of Ontario\u2019s Dance Halls and Summer Dance Pavilions”<\/h4>\n

When I searched through the book I could find no reference to Dorsey at Crystal Beach.\u00a0 Strange though that if you read the section on “Summer Gardens” in Kitchen-Waterloo (pages 86-87), someone who was interviewed, recalls “I shrieked at a skinny Frank Sinatra there.”<\/h4>\n

Strange, I hadn’t heard the one before and couldn\u2019t prove it.<\/h4>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 I finally decided to reach out to someone in Fort Erie and they sent a contact for the archivist with Fort Erie Times.\u00a0 I asked them to look into Dorsey playing\u00a0 Crystal Beach sometime between 1940 and 1942.\u00a0 Those were the years that Sinatra was touring with Dorsey.\u00a0 While waiting for a response, I received this post from a member of our group:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Charlotte Nielsen interview with Mr. Truckenbrodt<\/h4>\n

April 23, 1985<\/h4>\n

<\/h4>\n

F.T. They used to advertise \u2022\u2022\u2022 it was a quarter million dollar ballroom. Well of course in nineteen twenty-five, that’s a lot of money. And of course, interestingly, like the boat, I’ve been involved in the ballroom all my life because I went to work in the ballroom when I was twelve taking tickets and we used to say working on the ropes because it used to be five cents a dance, later on ten cents a dance like the song says. But you’d pay five cents for a ticket and then we would go out with the ropes. we had long long ropes and we would then sweep the people off the back of the floor, you see, at the end of the dance. The new people with the new five cents would come on in the front and dance their .\u2022. There was ..\u2022 I think three minutes was a dance .\u2022\u2022 After the first two minutes we would begin to work out with the ropes and push the people off and then we’d have to see that everybody got off because they had to pay their next ten cents before they could get on again.<\/h4>\n

C.N. So you worked at this Crystal Beach Ballroom as a child?<\/h4>\n

F.T. Yes, yes. Well, I worked there from twelve until I was twenty.<\/h4>\n

C.N. Could you describe it? Tell me about the bands, the people .\u2022.<\/h4>\n

F.T. Well, it was unbelievable. As I said, when you try to tell about Crystal Beach you can’t. You can’t make people believe how wonderful it was because there were two bands that played: A Canadian band (12) ( ( ( and an American band. and they were what we knew as, in those days, as the bands, right. And in my time essentially it was Bert Niosi, who I watched on television two years ago, when he had his fiftieth anniversary at the Palais Royale in Toronto. He used to play the Palais in the winter and Crystal Beach in the summer. And I knew all the Niosis Johnny and Joe and Burt and my sister used to babysit Burt’s children when she was a little girl. Joe Niosi was in the airforce with me so we used to see each other in Ottawa. He was the number one airforce band during the war. But at any rate .. \u2022 And Harold Austin was the orchestra that came over on the boat. and you see with union rules, they had to have a Canadian band or the American couldn’t play. So the Canadian band started at eight o’clock and the boat came in at nine fifteen and at nine thirty Harold Austin played. And Harold Austin played from nine thirty until eleven and then Burt Niosi and his band would come on at eleven and play through till twelve. Now can you imagine what a joy this was, because Harold Austin left Buffalo at eight o’clock every night, seven days a week from Decoration Day till Labour Day and all the people of Buffalo would come out at eight o’clock, you know, people who had worked during the day, and they’d dance to this eighteen piece orchestra all the way across on this beautiful maple dance floor on the back deck of the Canadiana on a hot summer’s night, moon over the water, and land at Crystal Beach and walk just over to the ballroom and then dance away the night at the ballroom and then get back on the boat and dance their way back to Buffalo till twelve fifteen at night. I can remember seeing still the Harold Austin orchestra coming down the covered walk from the bridge with their bass fiddles and their saxaphones. They looked like the Buffalo Symphony Orchestra coming out after a concert. And then at eleven o’clock you’d see them all packed up with their bags going down to get on the boat again. Well, can you think what excitment this is with the boat and the dance hall and all this sort of thing.<\/h4>\n

C.N. No, I don’t quite understand.<\/h4>\n

F.T. And you see, the whole village, the whole place in the summer turned around the boat, because it was like Martha’s vineyard or (13)\u00a0 Nantucket. In the early days, everybody came on the boat because they didn’t have cars particularly during the depression in the early nineteen twenties. People might have had a car but they didn’t take it to Crystal Beach. But everybody in Buffalo could take the streetcar down to the dock at the end of Commercial Street and take the hour ride to Crystal Beach and be there for the day or for the evening and have their swim and go back. But it was always a different crowd, an adult crowd, that came on the. late boat at night, eight o’clock, and then go back and dance there.<\/h4>\n

C.N. Are you saying the band played both on this boat, the Canadiana<\/h4>\n

and at the ballroom at Crystal Beach? But you were in the ballroom working?<\/h4>\n

F.T. Yes, and in the ballroom. Taking tickets, yes.<\/h4>\n

C.N. You said, “Everybody could do this.” These were’nt rich people? They were everyday people? Oh yes! Sure. Oh!<\/h4>\n

F.T. And young people. Marvelous young people. We had such great gangs of people here. And we all went to the ballroom at night. Everybody did. And we all went to the beach in the afternoon. You know, it was just a wonderful time. And then of course, we began to have the name bands at the ballroom too as the big bands became famous. And we would have \u2022.\u2022 Almost all summer, Saturday night there’d be a big band. And my favourite orchestra was Jimmy Dorsey. And I was absolutely in love with Helen O’Connell. And I had all the records, you know, my old poor old seventy-eights on this scratchy Victrola that I played all these things. And then suddenly Jimmy Dorsey was coming. Can you imagine the excitement? So I met Helen O’Connell and Bob Everly and got their autographs on my poster. I was just so thrilled. And we had Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey. Oh, it’s so hard to do it all at once. But there was hardly a name band that we didn’t have. Larry Clinton. You name me some and they were probably here. And I can’t tell you the name of the orchestra. I just remember the girl singer was Louise King who I was terribly proud of. And then we had a terrible, terrible time one Labour Day. And I was working on the door (14) ( ( and Artie Shaw was corning. Well that was after .\u2022\u2022 Like each year one of the big bands would become the band of the year. We had Jimmy Dorsey and Tommy Dorsey with Frank Sinatra and Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller of course, and then suddenly there was Artie Shaw playing.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0It\u00a0 was a fascinating memory but it didn’t narrow down a firm date for Sinatra Dorsey at Crystal Beach.\u00a0 Here was part of my reply:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Assuming Dorsey played a Saturday night, I checked gaps in our listings and every Saturday night from April to September in 1940, 1941, and 1942 are all accounted for in our listings.<\/h4>\n

I gained access to Ontario, Canada newspaper archives today and searched for Tommy Dorse or Sinatra for those years and nothing comes up except the Canadian National Exhibition dates for those years.<\/h4>\n

The post brought this response from one of our members:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

But how do we account for all the people bearing witness ?<\/h4>\n

Dorsey’s name comes up again and again in the history of the Crystal<\/h4>\n

Lake Ballroom. I’m sure the band would have been welcomed any day<\/h4>\n

of the week. As Frank was fond of saying: Dorsey was the General<\/h4>\n

Motors of the big band era. Last week I read about an eye witness<\/h4>\n

describing\u00a0how the young women were hovering near the stage and<\/h4>\n

squealing as\u00a0Frankie crooned away.<\/h4>\n

Here’s how I responded:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

I can\u2019t account for it.\u00a0 One person with no evidence to back it would convince me it didn\u2019t happen but several people remembering it makes no sense.\u00a0 This is like Sylvan Lake with Harry James.\u00a0 It made no sense compared to the other evidence that he was still advertised at the World\u2019s Fair and live remotes for a September 1st<\/sup>, 1939 for the World\u2019s Fair were still being listed.\u00a0 In the end, we know how that worked out with Sylvan Lake actually occurring.\u00a0 I also found a previously unlisted Sylvan Lake in 1941 with Dorsey and Sinatra because of the research into Sylvan Lake.\u00a0 So, anything\u2019s possible.<\/h4>\n

The fact that the mock-poster for Crystal Lake exists is obviously based on someone\u2019s belief or knowledge that Dorsey and Sinatra were there.\u00a0 I\u2019ve heard nothing from the contact I was given for the Fort Erie Times so I\u2019ve reached out to them again.\u00a0 Maybe my initial request went into someone\u2019s spam.<\/h4>\n

I haven\u2019t given up on Crystal Lake and I\u2019m still trying to run down Schenectady.\u00a0 The fact that Sinatra himself once said he played there with Dorsey is enough to send me searching.<\/h4>\n

Ok, so now I’ve thrown in Schenectady.\u00a0 I’ll explain that in a bit.\u00a0 My comment that my first inquiry to the archivist at the Fort Erie Times might have gone into spam was probably correct because I received the following email:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Hello Scott,<\/h4>\n

I didn’t get your previous email but the Museum can provide you with some background.<\/p>\n

In 2009, William Kae wrote a book called “Crystal Beach Live – Buffalo and Toronto Entertainers & More”. There is information in that book regarding Tommy Dorsey playing at Crystal Beach Park. The following is taken from that book:<\/p>\n

Page 199
\n“Jimmy and Tommy Dorsey had bands together and separately … Jimmy’s band came to Crystal Beach, as did Tommy’s, and after the brothers reconciled, the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra also played at the park. The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra under Warren Covington played Crystal Beach twice during the big band era and returned in 1988.”<\/p>\n

Page 202
\n“Old Blue Eyes sang with the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra from 1939 through 1942. Tommy Dorsey, however, never played at Crystal Beach during those years. This poster has to be one of the biggest faux-pas on record.” \u00a0[ A photo of a poster is in the book and is and exact match to the poster that you attached to your email.]<\/p>\n

We hope this helps your research project.<\/p>\n

Regards,<\/p>\n

Jane Davies
\nManager
\nFort Erie Museum and Cultural Services
\nBox 339, Ridgeway, ON
\nL0S 1N0<\/p>\n

Thank you Jane Davies.\u00a0 So much, for all those people who remember Sinatra being there.\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 So what about Schenectady?\u00a0 One of our group, during the Sylvan Beach search had posted the following:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

The search for this date reminded me of a tape I listened to many years ago.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0As the vamp started on “N.Y.,N.Y.,” Frank would sing out “Milwaukee” or “Alamogordo” or some other city<\/h4>\n

decidedly not measuring up to the Big Apple. On the night in question, he let out with “Schenectady.” Then Frank said<\/h4>\n

he had played there with Dorsey many years ago. Another time I received a call from the office of the writer William<\/h4>\n

Kennedy. They had heard Sinatra once played in our area with the Dorsey band. “Was it Schenectady ? or Albany?<\/h4>\n

or . . .” I told them I didn’t know.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0That band played a lot of one-nighters more than 80 years ago. And newspaper coverage was very meager<\/h4>\n

in relationship to what happens today.<\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 I began to research the Schenectady and Albany connections but to date have found nothing.\u00a0 I have searched through Schenectady and Albany newspapers but have found nothing.\u00a0 I have found some information that suggests Dorsey and Sinatra once played the Rain-Bo Room of the Kenmore Hotel in Albany.\u00a0 Here’s one mention:\u00a0 https:\/\/nippertown.com\/2019\/10\/11\/historic-albany-nightclub-once-frequented-featured-the-likes-of-frank-sinatra-cab-calloway-and-duke-ellington-to-reopen\/<\/a>:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Inside the expansive back room in the northwest corner of the old Kenmore Hotel hangs a drab, grey curtain concealing the last piece of history tied to the space.<\/h4>\n

The curtain protects a mural called \u201cThe Court of Cleopatra,\u201d painted on the wall above a modest stage on which Frank Sinatra, Tommy Dorsey, Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington played. It\u2019s a depiction of the Queen of Egypt, whose beauty was unparalleled and whose intelligence matched that of the powerful men she seduced, most notably Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. It\u2019s placement high upon the wall implied that this was the room in which the masters of the universe was expected to frolic.<\/h4>\n

Unfortunately I couldn’t find any information to pinpoint a date or even prove that Dorsey and Sinatra were together at the Kenmore Hotel.\u00a0 Of course Sinatra would sing at the Knickerbocker Arena in Albany on January 30th, 1990 and November 13th, 1991.\u00a0 Sinatra was the first act to open the new Knickerbocker Arena when he played there in 1990 but\u00a0 earlier appearances with Dorsey remain a mystery.\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

\u00a0\u00a0 There are also other Sinatra concerts that people have alleged to have seen or heard about but never happened.\u00a0 I recently came across the following website that mentions Sinatra at the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto in 1948:\u00a0 https:\/\/www.vintageinn.ca\/tag\/cne-history\/<\/a>.\u00a0 That never happened.\u00a0 Here’s what they posted:<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

In 1948 Frank Sinatra<\/strong> performed under the big tent.<\/h4>\n

I found this GREAT post on a Sinatra family forum page about his visit thru the eyes of an attendee, which I will share with you now.<\/h4>\n

I was able to retrieve a couple of memories from my Mom about the 1948 Concert held under the big tent at the CNE in Toronto.They are wonderful memories of a time totally lost. I asked her to try and write everything down when she feels up to it.<\/strong><\/h4>\n

The tent was jammed to the limit with fans, and not one speck of trouble occurred. My mom remembers the wood floor that was layed out for the dancing. Can you imagine trying to pull that off nowadays? If we could only have times like that today!<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

She remembers his famous bow tie, and how all the girls were just swooning at the front of the stage.She had the best time. My parents\u2019 seats (they were newly engaged at the time), along with my Uncle and Aunt were quite a distance from the stage, but the minute Frankie came on my Mom and Aunt were off like a shot, my Dad and Uncle following. As I mentioned before, she was right up to the stage, and loving every minute.You can imagine her excitement, as she\u2019d been a bobby soxer through and through, buying every magazine, and record. And here she was FRONT AND CENTRE STARING UP AT HER IDOL! Hopefully she\u2019ll be able to write her memories of this great time down.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Take Care,from the Second Generation of Sinatra Fans-Ann<\/em><\/strong><\/cite><\/h4>\n

I had a bit of a laugh last night, as my Mom recalled another interesting fact about the concert in Toronto.<\/strong><\/h4>\n
\n

There was a dance floor put up in front of the stage, and the guys were wanting to dance. The girls on the otherhand were just standing there staring at their beloved Frankie!!!! But then again what else would one expect! He was sooooo cute!!! <\/em><\/strong><\/h4>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Here was my comment, which you can read in the comment section:
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n
\n

Hello,<\/h4>\n

I have done extensive research on Sinatra\u2019s appearances in Canada and there\u2019s no record of a 1948 CNE concert. He was with Dorsey at the CNE in 1941 in Toronto and then the Mutual Street Arena in 1949 in Toronto. He did not return to Toronto until 1975.<\/h4>\n

I think the guy\u2019s mother is misremembering ( I know, it\u2019s not a real word).<\/h4>\n

You can flip through images for the whole 1948 program for the CNE and the big draw was Olsen & Johnson. The program does not mention Sinatra:<\/h4>\n

https:\/\/www.icollector.com\/1948-Canadian-National-Exhibition-Program_i33705507<\/a><\/h4>\n

I have access to the Toronto Star newspaper archives as well and I checked the daily listings for the CNE in August\/September 1948 and Sinatra was not listed.<\/h4>\n

I am certain there was no performance by Sinatra at the CNE in 1948. The Grandstand opened that year and all the big draws were at the Grandstand and not in a tent.<\/h4>\n

I also wrote a blog about some of Sinatra\u2019s Canadian appearances, including his CNE concerts:<\/h4>\n

SINATRA\u2013CNE\u20131984\u2013SEPTEMBER IN THE RAIN<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Of course, I had to get a plug in for one of my blahgs.\u00a0 If you read through the other comments on that page you will also find this comment:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Hi Liz, do you know if there’s any evidence of Sinatra visiting or performing at the Brant inn in Burlington in the late 40\u2019s? My grandmother worked there and claimed he \u2018stole a kiss\u2019 from her.<\/em><\/h4>\n

That never happened either.\u00a0 I’ve done a comprehensive study of all of Sinatra’s performances in Canada and the CNE in 1948 in Toronto certainly wasn’t among them nor have I ever seen another mention of a possiblity of Sinatra at the Brant Inn in Burlington.\u00a0 The only other reference to Sinatra in Canada that is left unanswered is a reference to The Curlu in Toronto.\u00a0 From the Wikipedia entry for The Curlu, https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/The_Carlu<\/a>, you will find this:\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

Itself a highly regarded work of Art Moderne the Eaton’s Seventh Floor was at the heart of Toronto’s cultural life for many years. The Auditorium played host to the major performers of its day, including Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington and Frank Sinatra.<\/em><\/h4>\n

That’s one I don’t even know where to begin to try and verify.\u00a0 I think I’ll leave it for now.\u00a0 Maybe someday I’ll resolve the Schenectady\/Albany question but I’m happy at least I had a hand in solving the Sylvan Beach and Crystal Beach mysteries.\u00a0 There may be other mysteries but I’m taking a break for now…maybe for at least the next five minutes.
\n<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/h4>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a0 If this blahg has a title then I must have figured out what I was going to say.\u00a0 I’ll offer up a warning right at the beginning that this is going to be another one of those Sinatra related entries.\u00a0 I’d been working on it for a while in my mind and through emails […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[1],"tags":[253,4,8,3,252],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5999"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=5999"}],"version-history":[{"count":36,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5999\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6059,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5999\/revisions\/6059"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=5999"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=5999"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/falseducks.com\/theblahg\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=5999"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}